Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast
In this podcast we discuss mentoring in cybersecurity, information for those that are looking to get into cybersecurity, and tips for those that are looking to advance their careers.
Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast
The Networking Do’s and Don’ts in Cybersecurity
In this episode of The Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast, Steve and John explore one of the most powerful career accelerators in cybersecurity: networking. While a strong resume might get you noticed, it’s meaningful relationships that truly open doors. Together, we unpack the key do’s — being genuine, consistent, and adding value — and highlight the common mistakes to avoid, like spamming, ghosting, or only showing up when you need something. You’ll also hear real-world examples and actionable tips you can start using right away.
If you’re ready to transform connections into career opportunities, this episode is a must-listen.
Check out our Networking is King Course: How to Build a Career Through Real Connections
I reached out to a famous YouTuber. I'm trying to make a connection and first time I tried through email and I got shut down by their team. All right, fine. And then they're on LinkedIn. So I just short message, easy, doesn't have to be major long message Boom Connection accepted.
Steve:Could you teach me first learn stand, then learn fly. Make your role done your son, not the mine I know what you're trying to do I'm trying to free your mind, neo, but I can only show you the door.
John:You're the one that has to walk through it.
Steve:What is the most inspiring thing I ever said to you Don't be an idiot Changed my life. Welcome back to the Cybersecurity Mentors podcast. So last time we covered top 10 resume mistakes that might be holding you back. And here's the thing. Resumes are very important. We talk about them all the time but, to be honest, most cybersecurity jobs aren't landed by applying online or having a good resume. It comes down to the connections you make and, like we always say, we believe networking is king. So in today's episode we're going to talk about some specifics, some do's and don'ts when it comes to networking, to kind of help you or give you some ideas of what you can do and how you can get started. We get that question all the time. Right, I'm not good at talking. It's going to be tough for me. I'm an introvert. We understand it doesn't come easy if it's something that you're starting to do now, but hopefully, with these do's and don'ts, we can get you started and get you focused and on the right track.
John:Yeah, no, let's do it. You know, just like Grant's episode a couple episodes ago, it was a great example example. We did not pay him to say those things, but it was great for him to bring those up to say, hey, I talked to this guy at this meetup and I found out about this opportunity, this job that I would know have no clue about. But he went there with intention and looking to try to meet people and get to know those, but also trying to find some opportunities, and it worked out for him. He landed that position, I believe, not just because he's great and he's got, you know, he's been working on his skills and he's worked with us, but because he was probably in a narrower, smaller, shallow, but because he was probably in a narrower, smaller, shallow, more shallow pool of candidates, because it wasn't even posted online, right.
John:So I really do think this it could. It is just there's a lot of pluses for this. We're not going to beat this to death, but we really believe in it. And in this day and age, it was just everything's digital, everything technical, ai, right. It really I do think things are going to come back to a level set to more human connection, hopefully, right If the AI robots don't take over human connection, human things, more meetups, more in-person things. I do think those things are going to stand out and you can stand out by looking to meet others and have those skills.
Steve:Absolutely. I agree a hundred percent. So you may be asking why, or you know. If you've been listening to us, you already know the why. But if you're new and this is the first time listening to us why networking matters in cybersecurity and it's very simple. So I have a stat here. So over 70% of the jobs are filled through networking, not applications or resumes. So that means that is a big chunk of the pie. So just by knowing the right people, making the right connections, being in those circles that matter, can help you tremendously land that job. Obviously, resumes do help. Applying helps as well. But if you have an in, if you have someone that can give you a hand or, for example, like in Grant's episode, tell you about these hidden gems, these hidden opportunities that are not posted out there on LinkedIn, on Indeed or whatnot, that can give you a broader net to go after these positions and put you in a better position to land that job. So for me, it's very important. We've talked about it in and out. So, john, thoughts there.
John:Yeah, no. The good news is is that this is a skill. You can get better at it, Right, and you should treat it as a skill. You can just show up and maybe you get lucky and maybe you meet the right person and you make a connection. This is not day. Every time we talk about this. I think about this is like the dating show, but there is a skill to this. There is a skill to making those connections and keeping those going. So we're going to talk about some of that skill area today and what to do and what to not do.
Steve:Right, Steve, that's right. That's right. So, after we get done, if you are interested, you want to dive a little bit deeper. Some of the stuff that you hear today we have in our Networking is King course that is live and ready to go. That goes a little bit more in depth and gives you examples and kind of helps you along the way of your journey in terms of networking, getting to know people, whether it's in person, whether it's online, and kind of helps you get a better understanding of why it's so important. So we'll start off with some of the do's. What do you got for us, John?
John:Well, this one is number one, really, in my opinion. We talk about this in in this course, about you can. There is a intention, has a smell, it has a vibe, right. So if you go in there, even though you are going in there because you are trying to get something, you know there's an end goal here right absolutely, and you're trying to land an opportunity or level up in an opportunity, right, maybe you're trying to change careers or change jobs there, that's okay.
John:Most people are there with something in mind of that, in the back of their mind. But what my, my pitch is is that you should always be genuine and always actually be interested in these, in whoever you're meeting, right, Even if it doesn't, if it doesn't connect and you guys don't have don't gel, that's okay. But if you come off kind of salesy, hey, I really I'm asking about you, but I don't really care what you have to say. That is not good and and I know I get people that come to me that way a lot, not a lot, but I often over the years and it's a instant like I'm done.
John:You know I'll try to end the conversation in a nice way, but but I'm done with the conversation If you're really not listening to what I have to say, right? So if you are going to make connections and you do introduce yourself and you do ask about them, then pay attention to what you're doing, not just waiting for them to be finished to tell about yourself. Ask them because you are interested and you follow up. Oh man, that's interesting. Tell me about you. Know where you grew up? Tell me about why you're doing what you follow up. Oh man, that's interesting. Tell me about you. Know where you grew up? Tell me about why you're doing what you're doing. Tell me about your job, now, whatever.
John:But don't just ask because you think of it as a checkbox of you know, john and Steve. They said I need to ask questions. Think of it as, hey, I'm, you know, I'm looking to find more information about you. Maybe I help you out, maybe there's something here we can help each other out, or maybe you're just a cool person and we're on our same wavelength. We both are, you know, game of thrones fans and we're all in it, you know which house are you, oh yeah, what you like, um, whatever right like that.
John:you don't know until you start talking to people and, all of a sudden, maybe there's a hey we're, we are alike and like minded. But you got to be genuine.
Steve:No, I completely agree. So, number one be genuine, focus on the relationship aspect, not so much the transaction. So basically, what you can get out of that. Yeah, I mean, I think you've you've hit the nail on the head there Be genuine, actually be honest and true when you are going up to people and asking them questions or giving them feedback. And yeah, that's that is plain and simple to me, john.
John:Yeah, all right.
Steve:So so, number two do engage consistently. I hear it all the time oh, steve, well I, I did what you said. I sent them a uh, I sent them a linkedin message and I said okay, when was that? Uh, about six months ago. And anything other than anything else, anything following up? No, nothing. I'm just waiting on them to message me back from six months ago. You have to be consistent, right? If you send out a message, whether it's on LinkedIn, whether it's on Slack, discord, whatever it is, and you are not getting any message in return, try again, it's okay. Try again After the second third try. Okay, it's time to move on. But don't just try once or try twice and then just give up. Right, we gotta be consistent, but have a level of consistency that's not going to be misinterpreted into like stalking or like really being like a, like a clingy girlfriend.
Steve:Right, we do not want that, but we do want to try more than once. Yes, we do want to try more than once to reach out to someone and try and make that connection and build that relationship.
John:Your thoughts, john, yeah, I think that's a great way to think about it is you want to foster your thought? It's like you're a gardener You're trying to keep this, this relationship, growing mature. Don't let it die, don't let it dry out. Right, put a little water on it, a little bit here. You know you don't water it every day Like I used to do that and kill all my plants. Don't do that, right, just put a little bit.
John:You gotta, you gotta look at hey, just checking in, just checking in that little bit. You got to, you got to look at hey and just checking in, just checking in that little bit of just checking in. Now you do want to try to turn that into the next step and say, hey, can we jump on a call? I love to chat with you, catch up, you know. No, don't just rely on the check in that you're doing to keep the, the relationship going, the connection going, um, but you know you don't want to overwater, but you also don't want to let it die. Like you know, it's been months. Like Steve said, yeah, absolutely.
Steve:Perfect, all right, number three, all right, do add value.
John:So this is also kind of that giver mentality.
John:We talk about this in the course of don't just be thinking about this, and I said this is the beginning of what I can get out of it. Maybe there, you know, there's a, there's a quote and I don't have it handy of like helping other people get what they want can help you get what you want, right. So that mentality of maybe it doesn't turn into anything, but if I can help them meet somebody else or connect them to somebody or whatever, maybe I have nothing, but maybe I do, and I don't know that. But if you come at it from that perspective of maybe there's something that I could, I can be a helpful for them, that is a good feeling. When you help somebody and you make that connection to them and maybe it turns into an opportunity or a job. Man, I love that feeling, right, I've done that many times and I love like being able to just like I didn't do it. I just helped connect and and make this. You know, you guys may have never met before, but I've helped connect you. So that kind of mentality of you know, how can I add to them?
John:Maybe there's a article or something that you've read recently or a podcast you listen to maybe a podcast about networking, I don't know that. You're like, hey, you know you've been sending out a thousand resumes a week. Maybe you should listen to this episode. But no, really I do that often. I kind of come across things, and not that I don't have a list. That's where it gets a little salesy, where you're like, oh, steve likes this and this and this. Oh and, and sally likes this, this and this. And you're like, oh, I'm gonna send you that. That gets a little. There again gets back to your intention. But if you know and you're actually you care about steve and you care about what he's interested in, you're gonna come across things and you're like, oh, you care about Steve and you care about what he's interested in, you're going to come across things and you're like, oh, I bet this is an interesting article.
Steve:Let me send it over Right Easy. Back to watering the garden. Absolutely. And if anybody's wondering, I'm very interested in traveling to Japan next year.
Steve:So if you got any hints, anything that could that could help me out, send it my way. That's right. No, no, I agree, I agree completely. You know, adding value and a lot of the feedback we get from someone just starting in cybersecurity is well, you know, I'm just starting, I'm new. How much value can I add or bring to someone or bring to a conversation? Or you know what can I do if I'm just starting and I'm a newbie. Or you know what can I do if I'm just starting and I'm a newbie. You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised.
Steve:I guess people tend to focus solely get into the silo about. The only way I can help someone is through cybersecurity, because that's what I'm looking to get help on. But listen, people come from all kinds of backgrounds. They have different stories, they have different interests. Just like John said of backgrounds, they have different stories, they have different interests. Just like john said, you know for all, you know you can be meeting someone that to you they are a cyber security connection, right, but in return, you know you could, you could make the best guacamole ever, and they this, this person is trying to learn how to make better mexican food.
Steve:You just never know, I guess just step out of that kind of mentality that it's only it only has to be it or cyber security related. It can be completely different, right, if you have somebody who likes to play softball, wants to play on a softball league and you are part of a league. I mean, there's just so many things that you can do, or even just feedback some of the stuff. One thing that I've done recently is I've given feedback. Someone created a course it doesn't have to do with cybersecurity, but just a sales course and I just I did it, I ran through it and just give them my honest feedback, and that is me giving value back to them. So it could be simple things like that. It doesn't always have to be cybersecurity related. So, yeah, just kind of think about it, take a step back and there's more to the picture than just cybersecurity.
Steve:Yep absolutely All right. Number four do follow up. And this to me, is very important because to me it adds the little cherry on top. If I am interviewing someone and the interview could have gone well, could have not gone so well, but if I get a thank you or it was a nice to meet you message afterwards or anything like that, that leaves an impression to me. So, just like you would do in a resume for an interview, in a resume, if you connect with someone, whether it's at a conference or anywhere a simple connection on LinkedIn or whatever social media platform you use, and a simple hey, it was really nice to meet you, you know, hey, I really enjoyed your talk, Anything like that After you meet someone. Your talk anything like that after you meet someone, do that follow-up.
John:That matters and that leaves an impression. Yeah and uh, you know, I think just like being able to send a thank you, that thank you note and this is actually the pro tip, right, and this is you're getting this for free. We, we charge for this pro tip, but I going to give it to you for free, right, you ready? Look, get your notebooks out. Come on, let's go. Steve's like what is wrong with this dude, but pro tip. Hey, when's the last time you got a written thank you note?
Steve:Mm, mm.
John:Yeah, I have gotten one and I was like like you know what that is? That is, that makes you step up and stand out even more. So, right, find out their address, whatever, write a little thing. It doesn't have to be a paragraph, you know, make sure you write. Okay, my, my handwriting is pretty bad so I gotta like very, be very slow but um, write a thank you note and and drop it off, mail it off whatever. If I get that in the mail, man, I'm gonna remember I'm gonna remember that, right, yeah so you're welcome yeah, I actually have a quick story.
Steve:I had, um, I was working for a company, um, and the manager there at the time, uh, she was. She was just my manager for a brief period. There was a transition going on. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Um, I got a letter in the mail from her and it was like a happy birthday card and it had like a $10, like a Starbucks gift card in there. But I had, I had just met this person like not even two weeks in, and it just so happened that my birthday was coming up. She took it upon herself to learn about me, someone who was coming to work for her team when my birthday was all that, whatever, I took the initiative, got the card, sent it to me. I was pretty taken back. I was like wow, that to me was like wow, this means a lot. I mean, it's a simple gesture, but it left an impact and it made me want to work even harder for her and her team. You know what I mean. That left an impression.
John:So it's those little things. He's just trying to get me to send him a gift card. What? What I'm getting out of this store. Now that was, that's that you're. That's a great point. I mean, he's like there's some manager that sent me.
Steve:I mean you know, hey, hey, I'm just if the shoe fits, john. No that's.
John:That's a good point, good story, Thank you.
Steve:Yeah, absolutely All right, and I believe, yeah, our number five for our to-do list.
John:Do build a personal brand. So, really, just like, what we talk about is building like your profile. Your resume is part of that, but your LinkedIn is definitely a part of that. Um, you know, make sure that it looks good, it's professional, it is your digital footprint from a business perspective. I'm going to go look at your linkedin page, right, so don't, there's a lot of don'ts in there. We're not going to go into all the details of that. Um, we're going to get.
Steve:You can hear about it in our course.
John:Yeah, that's right, but make it professional. Take the extra time, put things that you're working on on your LinkedIn. Hey, this is what I did, this is what I'm studying, this is what I'm learning, those certifications, whatever. We also talk about kind of a GitHub repo as basically your profile of project work, right?
Steve:it's an option.
John:It doesn't have to be github, it could be anything, but it is a good example where you can go in and go give screenshots and, hey, I did this, this lab. I work through this problem. Here's what I did. You write up, you know what you did and how you did it. Um, you know, and then I can see how you write and what you're. You know you're how it looks, right, some of your work really so doing that is a multiplier for your resume or for your connector, right? If I go out like oh, who's this person who sent me a LinkedIn connection request, I go look at your LinkedIn page. You got a link to your GitHub page which has a bunch of projects on it. Okay, I may learn a lot about you and maybe I can see what you're about, what you're interested in, and see how I can help.
Steve:Yeah, no, I think that's great. I completely believe that's your digital footprint. I mean, if we are advising you and you are taking that step to reach out to people via LinkedIn after you meet them at a conference or just online, and you send me a message and I'm like, oh okay, this is a nice message and it was nice meeting this person, let me check their LinkedIn page or let me message them back and your page is kind of a disaster back and your page is kind of a disaster. I mean, I hope that our initial meet was great and it's. I'm gonna overlook the disaster of a linkedin page you have, but it could also leave an impression.
Steve:If you are making trying to make this connection, initially via linkedin, with someone just online, and you're trying to connect with them through an article they wrote or a YouTube video you saw or a podcast, whatever it may be, and you're specifically talking about cybersecurity, well, if they come back to your profile to see who you are and kind of learn a little bit more about you before they reply to you or, to be honest, to decide if they want to reply or not, and your LinkedIn profile is not looking sharp, then it could hurt you.
Steve:It could hurt you more than it could help you. So LinkedIn matters, linkedin pages matters. We live in the world where that is. Like John said, your digital footprint and first impressions matter, as they do when you go for an interview, so online is the same thing. That is the first thing people will come and see. That has to do with you, so you want it to look good and be easy for someone to stop by and understand oh, this person is in cybersecurity or they're interested in cybersecurity, and this is what they've done and this is what they want to do. So just my two cents.
John:No, it's great, I know you like that one. Yeah, all right, let's move along to the don'ts Mistakes to avoid what's number one what you got All right.
Steve:We kind of talked about this already. But don't reach out only when you need something. Avoid the straight up hey, can you help me get a job? Straight up, hey, can you help me get a job. Or just like just you have to build those relationships. It takes time. You can go into building a relationship with the end goal or mindset of I hope this person can help me get a job at x company, or with his team or with his group, whatever. That is okay, right, but you can't just just use them. You can't just only reach out to people when you need something. You have to build that relationship.
John:That's really what matters of friendships, relationship connections, where the amount of hours it takes to reach those tiers levels up, right. So the the kind of utility friend, the friend that you just kind of casual acquaintance with with, is like 20 to 40 hours, right, okay, we connected to 40 hours, right. That's like okay, we connected, we're maybe a work friend or a LinkedIn connection, right, that's that 20 to 40, 40 hour range. Then the next tier is like the closer friend, like you've opened up, you're sharing things, you you've helped them, they've helped you, whatever. That's like the 40 to 60, maybe 80 hour range. Then it takes like a hundred hours or 200 hours for somebody to become like a close best friend.
John:So think about those tiers is like how much have you built this relationship? How much time have you watered and fostered that? You know that, that the garden, um, to help make the connection, before you ask for, hey, can you help me, or can you help me connect to that guy who has a job posted? So you should kind of use that in your mind of how am I helping this relationship continue to foster and grow before I come in asking for something.
Steve:I like that and those numbers are crazy to hear out loud. I mean, yeah, you assume that you know you, you, everyone has a best friend or a close friend and yeah, they are your close friend and best friend because you've gone through a lot, you know, you've known them for years or you grew up with them. So yeah, that actually makes sense.
John:But having some numbers to go by that, yeah, that kind of makes me think back about yeah well, when you're, when you're young and you're in whatever k through 12 or in college, you have more time with more with your friends, right so?
John:that is faster to grow those connections, to be better friends. When you get you know, you get a job and you get a, it's a lot less time you have to grow those relationships and if it's just somebody you met on LinkedIn or you connected on LinkedIn and you don't, it's a lot. So it's very difficult to make those into good relationships. They don't have to be not everybody has to be your friend on LinkedIn.
John:Hopefully they're not friend on LinkedIn, right, right, hopefully they're not Um, but you know, if you want to build and foster that and really invest, then you do have to spend the time.
Steve:Wow, very good that. I like that. That's good information, awesome. All right, let's keep going. So number two don't oversell yourself. So this is a two-way relationship or you want it to be a two-way relationship and this is not? Don't treat this like a sales pitch, don't. Yes, we talk about hey, you have to add value. Right, you have to also give in order to take or receive, take or receive, but don't go in. You know selling the sun and the stars and not be able to, to be able to produce that. You know you have to be able to go in and say what you can do and do what you can do. So what do you think about that one, john?
John:Yeah, I mean, I think you know, just be humble, that's it. Just be humble. Hey, this is what I do know. This is what I don't know. I'm here, I'd love if you know something more than me. That's awesome. That's why we can help each other. Maybe I know a little bit about something over here. Maybe my life experience helps me help you in some way, just like you said earlier. So don't come off and trying to pretend you have expertise. X, y, z, you know just like. Hey, here's where I am, here's, I would. That's what's going to make me want to connect with you more. If you are open and honest about where you are, if you're a little fakey, a little bit like all right, does he, do they actually know what they're talking about about this topic, then that's going to be it's going to put some walls up.
Steve:Yeah, that's a red flag. And the cybersecurity community can be large, but also can be small, and if you kind of get added to the blacklist by one person, then others will hear about it and it can just be a slippery slope. So just be honest from the very beginning and uh, yeah, I mean, that's, that's really all I have to say. Don't overcommit yourself, don't oversell yourself. Just be honest and humble, that's right?
John:Um, I'll do number three. So don't ghost connections. You know, and I'm sure I don't know, what the norm is nowadays for text messages. I just know that I fuss at my older kids if they don't reply back to my text messages. I'm like of all the people that you don't reply back to for your text messages, I'm feeding you. If you want to eat, you better reply back to my text messages.
Steve:They leave you unread, leave it.
John:They leave me hanging. They don't know they'll read it. I can see they read it and they're like now some of them are goofy, they're like dad, that wasn't funny, whatever. But if I say like, hey, do you want this or this? You want this for dinner and this for dinner, and then it's just blank empty. I'm like I guess you're not eating. I guess you're not eating, so I don't know what it's like today. Maybe that's a.
John:It's more common to not reply back. But especially in if you're trying to build a relationship and professional, yeah, like you would not do that in in the real connection, real face-to-face. Like somebody asked you a question, you just stood there and you didn't reply back, right, so you wouldn't do that. You know, don't do that online. When you're trying to meet people and connect with people, um, if somebody sends you a linkedin request, a linkedin request, and you met them at a conference, then you know that's nice, unless they're just just. I know I'm beating on sales people, but unless they're just just, I know I'm beating on salespeople, but unless they're just a salesperson.
John:I was going to say but I know, but for the most part, like if they you met in the hallway, whatever, then yeah, don't ghost them you know, maybe you can help each other. Um, yeah, I mean I do get a lot of LinkedIn requests, mostly salespeople. I do ghost most of them, sorry, but I know where they're coming from. I know what they're trying to get something right. They want they want to connect with me because they want to sell me something. That's not the same thing that we're talking about here.
Steve:No, absolutely not. And the way I think about it is if you're working so hard to make these connections right, if you're stepping out of your comfort zone, and then you finally have made some, the last thing you want to do is have them go cold or go someone kill that momentum that you've worked so hard to build. Now I have heard from people that we worked with and stuff. Hey, I've reached out to this person and everything started great, and then things just, they just ghosted me, Things just went cold.
Steve:Yeah, that will happen Right now. Not always is that malicious, right. It could be that they are just busy, or they could be like me, where I check my LinkedIn once in like every six months. But if if that is kind of what the pattern you see or you know, try and take that conversation out of LinkedIn, right, maybe it started to be a LinkedIn, but maybe you can get an email. That is kind of what the pattern you see, or you know try and take that conversation out of LinkedIn, right? Maybe it started via LinkedIn, but maybe you can get an email or you can get a phone number, text message, whatever it is. But yes, we do hear it like, hey, we were messaging was great and then it just they just ghosted me. So it is common, but from a professional standpoint, that's just a no-no, you don't want to do that right. Others may do it. That's shame on them.
Steve:But us advising you guys and girls don't do that. Let's be professional. Even if it's a short reply, just boom, just get it out there and just yeah don't do that.
John:So, for all those people that sent Steve LinkedIn connection requests, he's not ghosting you. He just doesn't log in to check his LinkedIn. Yeah, I know.
Steve:So he's not personal and I've gotten called out on it too. Especially, people are like hey, I sent you a message request and I was like I'm sorry, man, I don't check LinkedIn. And then I give them like hey, reach me via email. That is the best way for you to reach me. But I've gotten called out on it a couple times, so yeah, so yeah, if you've sent me messages and I haven't replied to you, I apologize. Send me a connection request or whatever. I will send you my email address.
John:Smoke signals, smoke signals. Yeah, send you my email address Smoke signals. Smoke signals? Yeah, send him a letter in the mail. He'll read it.
Steve:Yeah, I mean, that helps too.
John:Yeah, all right, number four, I'll let you do this one. I've got an interesting one for this one, but go ahead, okay, okay.
Steve:Number four Don't spam LinkedIn with generic messages. Okay, linkedin we've talked about it plenty this episode already it is just the way people connect. Especially now in the professional IT world, linkedin is the way to go. Right, you meet somebody at a conference? Hey, what's your LinkedIn? It's whatever. That's kind of how you connect. So it is just, it's normal or I guess people believe it's just common sense to just message people via LinkedIn. Right, and it is okay to do that.
Steve:But when you start sending just tens of messages with just a generic message, just trying to connect with someone, that is going to hurt you. That is what you don't want to do. I know it takes time, but this is why it is quality over quantity. Okay, I rather work when I advise somebody. I say look, get five people, get five people. Right, just five people. Five messages that you personalize, review their pages. If you're coming to me and saying, hey, steve, I want to reach out to these five people, then you've already done your homework and there's a reason why you wanted to connect with these five people. So personalize each message. It matters. If you start sending 100 generic messages to 100 people, it's not going to go well and we've heard stories of people that have tried something similar and they get nowhere. And it's because quality over quantity, personalization matters yeah, okay, I'm done.
John:No, that's good. Um, so quick story. I you know this is about the long game too, but I reached out to a famous YouTuber I'm not going to say who it is Trying to make a connection, and first time I tried through email, and I got shut down by their team. They're like no, we don't. They've got a team that reads their messages. And so they're like, no, we're not interested. Because I was trying to see if I could get them to come be on the podcast, nice. And so I was like all right, fine.
John:That's fine, that's fine, and then they're on LinkedIn. So I just short message, easy, doesn't have to be major long message. I said hey, I love what you do, I'm a big fan. I just like to connect. Boom, connection accepted. It's like okay, now I got a little bit of the end here.
John:Um, then I went. I went hail mary, I should have, I should have stepped it up. This is what. This is a mistake, right, I'm trying to, I'm being honest, being vulnerable here, as I went to a little too far, but this is also a pro move. But I I should have did an intermediate, intermediary before the pro move, but I should have did an intermediary before the pro move.
John:I've learned a lesson, okay, so what did I do? Well, in LinkedIn, in case you didn't know this, you can record a video message and send to people in your connections, right, and to other people if you want to pay for the whatever, the plus. But so I recorded a quick video, said hey, so-and-so, not going to say who it is. Um, love your stuff, we're really like to have you on the podcast. I think we're on the same page, right? We're, we're talking about this stuff. This is what we do. Um, I didn't. I didn't get any reply back. I got no message back. No goes. I don't know if they read it. Um, maybe they don't read stuff, but I think what I should have done and what I messed up there is just like had a little bit of discourse and then went for the, the big one but you know, sometimes you take a risk and you try now.
John:it was very personalized, it was very custom to this individual and it was sincere, right, I really meant it, um, but it didn't go, not yet, so I'm playing the long game, right. So now you've got to follow up a little less strong.
Steve:That's a good example.
John:That's kind of a strong move. Now you've got to throw some little bit of softballs out there.
Steve:Just don't wait six months, john. No, don't wait six months, right.
John:Kind of wait another time period from the last time and then be like, hey, you know I love this thing, whatever you did, you know and genuine, be genuine about it. Don't just throw stuff out there that you don't actually believe in. Um, so yeah, that was um how you can personalize, but don't go all in like I did yet that's good.
John:Now that's good this is if you want to, um, if you want to connect with steve and I right like this is not easy to do for me at least Well, it's not easy for Steve either, because he doesn't check his messages but if you want to connect with us, it's a challenge, right, you know?
John:drop in the comments down there and be like hey, I got it. I got the connection request. I got accepted by Steve and John. Good luck. I'm just telling my firewall, my linkedin firewall, is strong, um, so I'm it's just a challenge. You can do it.
Steve:I believe in you maybe oh boy, what have you just started, john?
John:hey, it's good, it's good, all right, I'm used to it. I'm fending them off left and right because all the sales people. But yeah, oh man, all right. All right, we'll see we'll see what happens.
Steve:We'll. We'll give feedback in a future episode about how this went. Yeah, all right, last one. Last last one, for don'ts. Don't underestimate small interactions. So sometimes, like john just said, a simple comment, something you share you've read an article or listen to a podcast and you just want to share it with somebody. Or you just met somebody waiting in line at a conference to get something to drink or food or whatever. Just do not underestimate the small interactions that can turn into something great. I think grant Grant's episode and his example was great Literally meeting somebody at a lock picking station and then look at that, what that turned into. Right.
Steve:To me that would consider that a small interaction.
John:Yeah, yeah, I think so too. And just like you said, just hey, giving a little bit of something, oh, I appreciate that was a great article. Hey, I mean, you're talking, maybe the people that are posting stuff? Hey, oh, I appreciate that was a great article. Hey, I mean, you're talking, maybe the people that are posting stuff? Hey, just I like that what you said there. Whatever right, just look for ways to help others and be a giver. Back to that giver mentality versus just looking to get something out of it.
Steve:So absolutely All right. So, John, I believe you recently attended.
John:Was it a conference event? Yeah, so it wasn't a conference. It was just a local meetup specifically for people that are looking to connect with others that are in IT and tech and the local basically about 10 miles away from here, downtown area, and you know they. Just I went in in, walked in and didn't know what to expect. I didn't know where I was going because I haven't been there before, um, but when it was on the top floor of this, I guess it was office building. Yeah, office building they have like this restaurant kind of meeting area. Some of it's like a conference room type thing.
John:But I'm walking in, I feel super, you know, like I don't know anybody here. I did try to find somebody who might be also going, but they weren't going. So it's awkward, you know, you show up to these things and you don't know anybody. It's awkward. There's, there's just there's no way around it, especially if you never, never been there, um, so I come in to ask me my name and uh, and they're like hey, are you looking for a job, are you hiring or are you here to network? And I was like I'm just here to network, right? Um, and then he gives me this little wooden token. I'm like what is this for? Just for the, the noobs, the losers, the people that never, never been here before. But it was like a drink token. I was like, oh, okay, okay, I got it. So I come in and everybody's standing. There's like no seats right, everybody's in in standing room, in a big standing room. And so I just start kind of looking for people, because there's all these people that are talking and you're not going to be the third wheel and just kind of, oh hey, you know me, butt into there, right. So it's a little bit of an art form to introduce yourself or find somebody that maybe they're not talking to somebody else.
John:So I would kind of I would play the edges and kind of weave in and out to see people that were not already in a conversation and just introduce myself, say, hey, I'm John, what do you do? Again, right away asking about them. I didn't really go in because I could go on and on about, hey, I'm a CISO, and yada, yada. People don't care, they don't care. I mean, they kind of care, but they really don't care, right. So I just wanted to know who they were. Some of them I met were looking for jobs, I'd say about three or four people I met. They were looking for jobs. Um, some of them were just networking. I don't know if I, if I talked to anybody that was just hiring, but a lot of people there that were looking to meet people to help do what we're talking about, maybe make a connection.
John:I was kind of surprised and it was packed. I would say there were maybe a hundred people there. It was, it was packed. Yeah, it was busy.
John:So in all that too, you're trying to like, you know, loud room. I've got kind of a a soft baritone voice right, so I have to like loud, I have to be louder so they can hear me sometimes when it's a loud room. Um, so some of that plays into it and you're like, well, you know where are you from, those kind of things. But it was good because you know I met some folks I talked about. Maybe I didn't have any jobs for them, but it was just good conversation of like. If I go back now I'll recognize some of those folks that I met and talked to and got to introduce myself to and I can ask them how's it going? Um, there was one guy who he worked at a semiconductor, um manufacturer in uh, I think it was Oregon, and now he's moved here because his wife moved here and there's not there's no semiconductor manufacturers in this area. So you know, that's a struggle and we just talked about that a little bit. But just in general, like you're just kind of planting seeds and and they're not even some of them weren't even in cybersecurity I would say I didn't meet anybody that was in cybersecurity.
John:I was the only person there that was in cybersecurity that I met. Then they were probably there, I just didn't meet them, right. So I didn't even have that connection of like, oh, let's talk cybersecurity, um. But that's okay, you know, maybe I can help them, maybe they know somebody, maybe they can connect me again, I'm just there to meet people and to get to know them and people, especially local people, um, that I, maybe there's, there's something that we can help each other. So, yeah, get out there. It can be a little bit nerve wracking, right, when you don't know the area, the people, but the next time, that first time is going to be the hardest. The next time it'll be a little bit easier. Then it can become a thing like oh yeah, this is great, I'm used to going here, right.
Steve:Absolutely no. I mean, I think that's a great story, john, and that just goes to show our listeners and our viewers that even a seasoned professional like yourself can get some butterflies in the stomach when he's in a big room meeting people that you just don't know. I mean, that's just human nature. It happens. Yeah, right, unless you are just used to that performance, that, uh, you know um public speaking, unless you are just used to being around those big crowds, you are gonna feel a certain way when you're in there and that is completely normal and it's completely okay. You just got to push, push through it, move forward and take some of john's advice. You know, kind of like play the edges. You know, listen to some of the conversations that are happening, look see who's talking, who's not talking and use that as an opening. You know, use that as a, as a way for you to get an in.
John:So absolutely, and once you make that first introduction and have a conversation, right, there's also the exit. That can be a little awkward, like, yeah, keep it simple, keep it short. Unless you're just, it's just great, like every you know, like I could just keep asking questions for a long time but like, oh, it was great to meet you, you know, say their name, right. Hey, it's great to meet you, tom. Um, hope to see you again, right, and then I'm gonna go meet some more people, right, and that's okay. Right, that's what they're there for too. But it can be like, how do you get out of this conversation? Some people love to talk and you're like all right, this person I, I did it. I didn't know this was the trap. Yes, yeah. But once you do that, first, get out of your comfort zone, like, get to have that introduction conversation. Now, it's a little easier. The next conversation, it's a little easier, right, okay, I'm doing this thing, right, you can do it.
Steve:Yeah.
John:And like I tell Steve and he doesn't believe me, I'm actually an introvert. But I can. I can put on the extrovert suit and and get out there and meet people. But I don't like get energized until I get into the groove. It takes me a little while to get into the groove. Now I like it, now I'm getting energy from meeting people, but it's a little bit to get there for me.
Steve:So maybe you like me, yeah, and it's okay. It is okay. Okay, and you know, we've been working with people and there's one person in particular I'm working with now. Um, this is not something that they do a lot. This is not something. This is something they have nightmares about doing, and it is okay. You just got to take it one step at a time, take it slow, you know, but this is very, very helpful, very helpful very, very helpful.
John:It's a helpful it is.
Steve:It is and it's something that you can get better at and you can improve. So one thing I want to highlight that you said was in the exit. You say you said their name and that is one of the biggest things I think people kind of don't think about. Right, make an eye contact and then literally trying to remember someone's name can be the most difficult thing ever if you are so nervous and you've got so much going on. But saying their name as you exit and even if you don't remember it, just ask them again Sorry, what was your name? It is okay. It is okay, if you do not remember from the initial introduction, to ask them again what their name was as you exit or in the middle of the conversation, right, anyway.
John:Yeah.
Steve:That is for another episode. You just made that comment and I just like yep, absolutely agree.
John:Dale Carnegie says you know, one of the sweetest things to another person is their name, and it's true. When somebody uses your name, remembers your name, it makes a difference. Now, I am terrible at names but, I, do try and try to remember people's names.
Steve:All right, guys. That is it for this episode. Again, just to recap, these were some do's and don'ts when it comes to networking, especially if you are new to that and trying to get started, trying to get an idea of what to do, what not to do. I hope this has helped. Again, if you want to dive deeper into this, check out. Our Networking is King course, which is live. Links will be in the description. Also, if you want to represent, get you some swag. Our swag shop is also live. Link is in the description. You can get anything from polos, mugs, water bottles, hoodies, hats, you name it, we have it. We want to take over the world One swag item at the time. So, yeah, if you're interested, go snag you something. Anything else from you, john go snag you something.
John:Anything else from you, john? No, I think this is a good follow-up from our first episode where we hit a lot of these like a different side of this topic, and I think we believe in it. We believe it's very important, especially now and today, and everybody I met in that meetup was talking about how hard it was right now and how tough it is right now, and they were there in the room trying to to get around those walls and those barriers to try to meet people, to make connections, like that's why there were a hundred people in that room yeah, it's tough but, it's not impossible.
Steve:Keep your heads up and just keep moving forward. If there's anything we can do for you, let us know. Uh, schedule a free consultation with us, and we'd love to get to know you and see how we can help you sounds good, we'll see you. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of the cyber security mentors podcast.
John:Remember to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform so you get all the episodes. Join us next time as we continue to unlock the secrets of cybersecurity mentorship.
Steve:Do you have questions or topics you'd like us to cover, or do you want to share your journey? Join us on Discord at Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast, and follow us on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear from you Until next time. I'm john hoyt and I'm steve higuretta thank you for listening.