Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast
In this podcast we discuss mentoring in cybersecurity, information for those that are looking to get into cybersecurity, and tips for those that are looking to advance their careers.
Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast
Can a Mentor or Coach Really Help You Succeed in Cybersecurity?
Can a cybersecurity mentor or coach really help you break into or grow your career?
In this episode, we break down the difference between mentorship and coaching, why investing in guidance matters, and what a structured 6-month mentorship journey looks like.
We also share real success stories from our mentees—and why going it alone might be slowing you down.
Plus, we’re running a limited-time offer: Get our coaching Plus Plan ($119/month) for the price of the Starter Plan ($69/month) for six months—available to the first 10 sign-ups. Sign-up link provided below.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Connect with us and leave us feedback:
● Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast Swag: https://the-cybersecurity-mentors-pod.myspreadshop.com
● Mentorship - Sign up for a FREE session: https://www.cyberprofessionalservices.com/scheduling-free-consultation
● Sign up for our Newsletter: https://sendfox.com/lp/m2vx85
● Join us on Discord: https://discord.com/invite/g4yRKjnD78
● Follow our LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cybersecurity-mentors-podcast
● Check out our YouTube channel for more content: https://www.youtube.com/@CybersecurityMentorsPodcast
● TCM Affiliate Link: https://certifications.tcm-sec.com/?ref=198
===========================================================================
Episode Resources:
● Mentorship and Coaching Promotional Sign Up #FIRST10
Link: https://www.cyberprofessionalservices.com/first-10
● CPS Mentorship/Coaching Pricing Plans
Could you teach me First learn stand, then learn fly. Nature ruled on your son, not the mind.
John:I know what you're trying to do. I'm trying to free your mind, neo, but I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
Steve:What is the most inspiring thing I ever said to you Don't be an idiot. It changed my life. Welcome to the Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast, where we help you break and grow into the world of cybersecurity. So I'm Steve Higuretta, and with me is my co-host, John Hoyt, and today we're diving into a powerful question, and that is can a mentor or coach really help you get into cybersecurity or take your career to the next level? Spoiler alert the answer is yes, but not just any mentor or coach. So we're going to break down exactly the right guidance that can give you a shortcut to learning and help you land your job without a lot of headache and mistakes. So let's jump into it. So, John, why is a mentor or coach important?
John:Yeah, I mean, there's so much out there, it's overwhelming the amount of information, the amount of classes, the amount of training, the options, which is a good thing, but also a bad thing in that how do you know what you should do? How do you know which path you should go? Is this certificate going to help me get the job? Should I focus on this skill or that skill? What are the things that really matter in an interview? When you land in that interview and you finally get in the door and you're having a conversation with hiring managers, what are they? What are the kind of questions that they're going to ask? What are they looking for in you?
John:And you could focus all your time and energy on something that you land in that interview and they're like that really doesn't move the needle, it doesn't really help you land the job and you thought it did because maybe somebody else told you that it was good, or you saw an ad for something that sounded cool.
John:But what are the things that make the difference?
John:So a coach and or mentor can help you curate that list of things that you should train, things that you should focus on, help you build out, you know, a strategy and a plan to get better.
John:You think about a coach and you know what a coach does for an athlete, right and how they really focus on their weaknesses and they help give them feedback to what they should do to improve on those weaknesses, right.
John:So if you're flying solo and you're doing this on your own which you can do I'm not going to say you cannot do this but you might not have the feedback that when you do get into an interview or you're trying to land that position along the way, you find out the hard way or the longer path, versus a coach and mentor helping you shortcut that to focus on what's important and you get the feedback directly to you in a conversation, a one-on-one conversation, it's like hey, this is where I see your, your week, and my opinion is you should focus on shoring up these weaknesses and, in short, cutting the process of you getting better right.
John:That's what it's about Mentorship and guidance. There's the the mentor, big, general mentorship of like hey, you know you ask a question every now and then, but this is more focused, strategized planning for you as an individual and how I can get better, based off of my weaknesses, what am I weak at, and you don't get that just generally. You can't get that from just watching a video. Right, it's tough versus that customized type approach that a mentor and coach can give you.
Steve:Yeah, I think you said it. I think it helps make you more efficient, right. We've worked with many people that have come to us after they've tried to do things on their own and they've just kind of get caught in a loop, right, they're just bouncing from one thing to the other. I think accountability also plays a part, right, because if you're doing this on your own time, you know you might be, you know, spending some time here. They're, you know, trying to get things done and oh, something happens in real life and oh, I got to put this to the side. You know, if you have someone there that's helping you, supporting you along the way, I think that, you know, will help you tremendously.
Steve:Just stay focused, stay motivated, because there's times when, I mean, you're given sweat, blood, tears, everything, and you know it can get tough, it can get a lot. You can feel like it's never going to end. And just to have someone there walking with you side by side and helping you and motivating you and letting you know hey, man, we're one step closer today, let's keep going. Or helping you and motivating you and letting you know hey, man, we're, we're one step closer today, let's keep going. Or you know, we're. We're closer, we're moving closer. I see the light at the end of the tunnel. I think that that plays a huge part, you know, just mentally, emotionally, uh, it can definitely make the difference for sure.
John:Yeah, having those deadlines. It's not necessarily a deadline, but when you know you're going to meet with your coach next week and there's a date on the calendar and you know they're going to ask you about whatever they've talked about, hey, this is the plan, this is what you need to work on. Listen, I do it right. When I know I'm going to meet with my boss, I'm going to make sure my stuff is ready, right. So that accountability, the deadline, just having something on the calendar, I'm going to go meet with this person and they're going to ask me about it. I want to make sure I've done my stuff when I meet. Absolutely Versus, it's on your own and you can do it whenever. That open-endedness of you know, it's all me. I could do this in six months. I could do this in three months. I could do this whenever. Do you do it six months? I could do this in three months? I could do this whenever. Do you do it? Would?
Steve:you do it Maybe, maybe not, yeah, Not, I mean, not everyone has that willpower right. There are those people out there that they set their mind on something and they get after it and they have their own schedule. They know what they need to do. They've done the research. They enjoy doing that research and discovery. You know there's other people that, especially a lot of the people that I work with are transitioning from a different role or different position, trying to get into cybersecurity. They have that full-time job, they're parents, they have kids, they're married, they have a spouse, so they're having to time, manage and balance all of that.
Steve:And that's kind of where we come in, because we can help prioritize. Hey, this is really what's important. This is really where you should focus. Forget about all this. You know this is just noise for now. Let's just do one, two or three things here by the next time we meet.
Steve:And it's little steps that in a long time, make big differences. Because and it's the consistency, man, it's really the consistency If you continue to just move forward, even if it's just a little bit at a time, you'll just see the difference after the time passes. But it is difficult, it really is difficult and I've seen it and you've seen it too with certain people that we've helped. You know just, life happens, Health issues happen. You know just different things in life happen and things have to kind of shift and when you are doing it alone you may not have that support or that guidance to help you continue to make it happen by helping you kind of minimize the noise and focus on really what's necessary so that in a short period of time you're able to make big jumps. Yeah, I mean you throw a quick like, for instance, example necessary so that in a short period of time you're able to make big jumps.
John:Yeah, I mean, you throw a quick like, for instance, example, um, and we love try hack me. We talk about try hack me a lot and how it's got so many different rooms and things that you can learn skills, which is great. The one thing I don't like about try hack me is that you get little feedback and if you don't know something or you get stumped on something you know, you could maybe go jump into their discord and ask questions about the specific room and get some help, but you're really still kind of flying solo. You don't really have direct coaching. Or if you get stuck, what do you do? Right? You, you got to go. You know I'm stuck here. I don't know what I, what I should do, and I was actually working with my son to do some of the basic Linux rooms. Right, he never used Linux before, and if you don't know, I mean maybe you try to go Google the answer, but you could just be completely stopped there. If you don't have somebody to ask for help, ok, what should I do here? And why is this asking me this? There's the why part of it. Why is it think that this is important for me to know. And then somebody come in and give you guidance, like well, this is why you know this is important. And let me give you a hint here. They do have hints, but sometimes it's still not enough. You can still be stuck. The hint needs a hint, hint. The hint needs context. Right, it's very you're flying solo, just figure it out, kind of thing.
John:That's just a small example of where somebody that is you know imagine you're doing this with a coach, or you've done this room and you got stuck here. You have somebody to guide you through it and also ask how does this help me in the big picture of being a security professional? What is this for? That's another question that people might be studying. Things like does this even matter? Is this even going to make a difference in my career? And a coach might say, no, it doesn't, you probably never use this. Or yeah, it really does matter. And when you get in an interview, they might ask you about this and say, hey, you know, what do you know about this? And you understand that this is an important thing to double down on versus just um, blowing over. Nobody's ever going to ask you this and you know those kinds of things. So just a quick example of the feedback piece of this that is really important.
Steve:Yeah, I enjoy working with a lot of different people, but a lot of the people that I usually work with are people that are transitioning from sales, customer service industry just different areas that are non-technical and they're trying to get their foot in the door within cybersecurity. Technical and they're trying to get their foot in the door within cybersecurity. And a lot of the help that I've been able to give other than you know, helping them get started and helping them through the process is being able to translate some of the skills they already have and they've already gotten through their previous employment just experiences translating that over so that you can connect that to certain roles and positions and what you will be doing in cybersecurity Because that's one
Steve:of the things that I unfortunately see a lot of people miss or are unable to do.
Steve:And that's fair, because if they haven't been in cybersecurity or if they're not working with someone who has, it can get kind of difficult to translate that right. So your resume can go from half a page If you don't know how to translate things to a full page. If you do, or if you're working with someone that does, that can kind of highlight those things that do translate over and that matter to a hiring manager like we are. When it comes point to reviewing resumes. So that's another area where I think having a mentor or coach really can help because they know the ins and outs of cybersecurity. And if you're working with someone like myself or John who are currently active hiring managers meaning we hire people all the time you know we're seeing resumes come through, we're seeing we're being an interview. So there's things, tips and tricks that we see that work and that don't work, that we can then again share with you when you're ready for that on your journey, that you're ready to start interviewing or creating a resume.
John:So yeah, one last thing I'll say. We'll move to the next point. This is good, though. I have been through the solo experience, I've lived it. That's how I got here. I didn't have a coach or a mentor, but throughout the whole time of my career I wish I had had one things I had to learn the hard way and just didn't have an option. And if I had somebody that I could ask and get more specific guidance on, you know, should I do this? Should I go this route? Should I not? Now it's worked. It worked out for me. But I mean, it took me 20 years right To get to where I am. It's not like it happened overnight and it's all good. You're right, you learn from things and mistakes and other things that you do. But, like I wanted and needed and really, really sought out a coach and mentor, I just didn't, didn't find one. So I, you can do it. It's, it is an option. It just maybe takes you longer to get there.
John:Um, and maybe you have some stumbles along the way yeah, and some people don't have that luxury.
Steve:Some people need need results, quick, right, need, need, need assurances that hey, if I'm spending this time, money and effort, I'm gonna get something in return. And I think, working with a um, you know, a seasoned coach or mentor, someone who has been doing this for a while, I think they they can give you that, they can give you that reassurance. That kind of that makes you feel better about the time, effort, money that you might be spending and not just like man, I hope this, I hope this works out. I don't know, I'm gambling, you know. I hope this works out.
John:I don't know, I'm gambling. I hope this works out. The encouragement, like hey, keep at it, I promise you it's going to be worth it. Yeah, absolutely.
Steve:Awesome. So, john and I, we've been in mentorship for a long time now and we've mentored many different people from different stages in life. A question that we hear a lot is should someone pay for a mentor or coach? Or maybe it's like I don't think you should pay for a mentor or coach. So what are your thoughts around that, john? No, I mean.
John:I get it and I get that. It is an investment. And I think that people think, when I think of just maybe the general term of a mentor and somebody that you meet and you think is they there where you want to be and you're asking them questions, maybe once a month, you're, you're, maybe you grab lunch with them, then no, that's that's really like kind of general, broad mentorship. Hey, you know, if I ever run into a challenge, do you mind if I shoot you an email? Right, that's open-ended, not like a formal planning, you know, resume, reviewed structure. I'm going to give you coaching, right, adding coaching to it.
John:That's not them watching you operate and giving you direct feedback on how you can get better at this skill, right, that's the big open-ended guru on the mountain that you can ask and phone a friend occasionally, but it's not the more specific stuff that we're talking about. So, yeah, I think in a broad sense, you shouldn't pay for that kind of a mentor. That's a friend that can help give you some lessons learned, some guidance in general ways that can help you and it will help you and you should do that. But this is like direct, focused. You know how do I work on my weaknesses, how do I get better? How do I get a job? How do I land that job Right? So talk about, kind of we're going to get in the details, but the difference between the two of what the big mentor versus what we are talking about here.
Steve:Yeah, absolutely. I think you did a good job there, kind of explaining what what a mentor can be, should be. So I see it as, like, a mentor is definitely someone that you could have a long term relationship with, right, someone that is more experienced in the area that you are trying to get into or that you are in, someone that can share their knowledge, guide you, share personal experiences and just kind of help you with your career growth in that area. Right, that's what I'm, that's to me, that's what a mentor is and that's what that's what we try to do in all of our episodes, right, we try to be mentors to the masses, to our audience, and just sprinkle in some nuggets here and there that hopefully will help someone you know, make the right next move and just give them that encouragement to keep going.
Steve:A coach is something different. A coach is someone that is helping you actively, helping you get better, right, someone that highlights your weaknesses, like like you mentioned, or someone that can help you create a plan to make you better, kind of like an athlete coach, someone that's more focused on specific goals, improving specific skills, your performance and just overall professional development. I feel like you know those. I feel like you should work with a coach for periods of time. It's up to the individual if you want to continue to work with a coach long term, but I think you should work with a coach for specific things.
Steve:So if you say, hey, I'm trying to get into cybersecurity and I tried to do it by myself, I tried to just, you know, listen, watch YouTube videos, listen to podcasts and try and get some guidance, but I'm just, I'm just not getting anywhere.
Steve:So I need someone that can give me their full attention for a certain period of time and help me create a plan, a guide, a roadmap that I will go after and they will be right there with me, making sure that what I'm doing is correct, that what I'm doing actually matters, and I'm not just wasting my time going after random certificates or learning random skills that really won't transition. Or boot camps, thank you, that really won't land me my job that I want my end goal, and a coach can kind of help you, guide you from start to finish and then done. So that's how I see the differences between mentorship and coaching, and I think we're we are talking about both here in this episode, because there is a difference, but I think you need a combination of both to be successful, and I think you need a combination of both to be successful, and I think that's kind of where we're going for here. Do you agree, john?
John:Yeah, I agree, and I think that the time that we are saying this imagine a coach is giving you versus the kind of the broad mentorship of I'll email this person once a month or we'll go grab coffee once every two weeks right versus this is very like they're. They are investing their time in you. You know hours of their time to help you get better per month, and that time investment is what you're paying for, right? You're paying for their time to focus on you, to get direct feedback, to help come up with a plan for how you reach your goals. Right? That's really what it is the difference maker and what our really pitch is. Is that why it's the value in what you're getting and why you should, you know, be willing to pay for this.
John:If you want to right now, you have to, but if you want to, and what you're getting out of it is the time investment from this coach and mentor. What are you going to spend your money on and what are you going to spend your time on? You could spend time on our money on a, on a certificate that maybe will help you put on your resume and it's going to help, maybe highlight your resume on the list in the HR AI funnel, or you get that investment in time into a coach that's really going to help you improve and maybe the certificate is part of it, but really they're going to tailor your plan for you. That's what it comes down to.
Steve:Yeah, and we can talk about this here. Next, how a mentorship coaching session would work if you were working with with us. Um, but it starts with the end goal in mind, right? That's really what I have seen, uh, been a success. When you have a relationship between a student, let's call that and a coach or a mentor. Well, I guess we can just move into the next section, if you're fine with that, john. Yeah, okay, awesome.
Steve:So in the very first meeting, what you should do with your coach is just laying down the foundation. What does that mean? Well, it's an initial conversation. When you get to meet your coach, when you talk about what you've done and what you would like to do, right, you kind of share your thoughts, your story of kind of what brought you to that point in time and where you want to go, where you want to be, like, what's the finish line, right, and I've been doing this for a while now. So I get a lot of people who may not know exactly what they want to do in cybersecurity. They just know that they want. They want to start a career in cybersecurity, right, and that's okay. If you don't know, that's okay.
Steve:Along the way, you will go through a number of different trainings and just material learning that will give you just very general overview of different areas within cybersecurity, that slowly, you will decide okay. Well, I find this more interesting than that. Right Now, I, as a coach and a mentor, can give you a recommendation. If your goal is just to get your foot in the door and you're not really worried about where you end up, absolutely I have recommendations that I can give and say look, I'm living, breathing cybersecurity.
Steve:Right now I'm in the field and what I hear is that this area here is going to grow and this is where the future is. So I think this would be a good area for you to start in right. Or I can say, hey, there is a ton of opportunities right now in this specific area. If you don't care much about where you land and you just want to get your foot in the door, then let's apply to these positions and we will frame your roadmap. We will frame your training so that you are one of the best candidates available for those positions and because there's so many of them, not only will we help you set yourself apart from everyone else, but the chances of you getting picked up and hired are tremendously better.
Steve:Those are the things that you don't really get when you're working by yourself or if you just have someone that could potentially give you some of their time here and there. Those are the things really that a coach and and someone within the field can really help you with. But anyway, so just reviewing kind of what your start is you know, where are you coming from, have you had any IT experience whatsoever? And then just looking at your current resume, right, and you know, I've worked with people that are coming from a sales background. I've worked with people that have worked at Amazon, delivering packages, ups. I've worked with people that started in education and after a couple of years realized being a teacher is just not for me.
Steve:I've worked with a number of people. But all of that matters where you're starting from, what kind of experience do you have and then where you want to go. Once we figure that out, then in the first month, laying the foundation, we can create a plan for you of where to start and where to end, and that would include all sorts of trainings, certifications that we think matter and different resources that will help you with that experience. John, anything you'd like to share on that?
John:Yeah, no, I think that's great. Just that foundation. You know where are you, what are your strengths and your weaknesses and what are your goals. What do you want to be when you grow up? What kind of focus and career do you want to have? Do you want to go more operational, soc type, or do you want to be more GRC type? Right, well, okay, those are big, different trees. Yeah, you should not do things on one tree versus the other tree. And if you didn't know, I mean most people probably could figure that out. But if you didn't know, like this tree tree here, I'll give an example.
John:Like cssp, right, some people think, oh, I need to get the cssp to to be able to get in the door. Right, well, you know the cssp. You really need x years of experience before you can be a cssp. But does it help you? How much does it help you actually in the job? It's not. I'm not going to say it doesn't help you, but it's not. Like it's going to be like man, I got my CSSP, I'm good to go, I don't. I've already got this training, I'm ready to hit the ground running. And even if I don't have experience which you do need to have experience to have experience. But so like those kind of things, like understanding what that means and what it means in a real security role, as a security professional, and how the rubber meets the road of of what's going to make a difference to make me better and better prepared for this career yeah, absolutely.
Steve:I've worked with individuals who've been trying to do things on their own and and they were pretty successful. But at the end of the day, when they came to me and we got to the finish line and we were just reviewing that resume, there was so much on there that they went after that. It was just that was the new hot topic. It was the new hot thing that people, you know, they heard on YouTube videos or they heard on podcasts and they just jumped on it and at the end of the day, it really wasn't where they wanted to be, but they just thought that, hey, everyone's been talking about this, this seems to be the new hot thing. Let me go after it. And it's just time, money and effort wasted in a sense, right. So that is very important to figure out where you want to go and have someone give you exactly what you need not more, not less so that you spend the enough time and effort on exactly what you need and you're not just wasting it. So, around now, I kind of started talking about this without kind of giving here the scenario. So what I'm talking about is going to be kind of like a six month program here, right? So we talked about month one. Right Within that month, you'll be meeting with a coach or a mentor and discussing the fundamentals, right. Where are you coming from, where you would like to go, and create that kind of plan to get you there.
Steve:Month two we'll continue with that progress. Right, we'll continue to see what you're doing, continue to help with that roadmap, start doing weekly, bi-weekly check-ins with you, just making sure things are good. We'll start to deep dive into a couple of security tools here and there, and then we'll start focusing on or discussing home labs, right, and that is because hands-on experience is very, very, very, very important. So that's kind of what you know month two would be like. So, a continuation of month one, and then month two you're actually going in doing stuff and we kind of go from there.
Steve:Month three would be focused on on what we would call your branding, right, your experience. We'll start looking at your resume, adding more of the security items that by now you've already are working on, are in progress or you've already completed. We'll start looking at your LinkedIn. You know LinkedIn is a big piece of the puzzle when it comes to networking, when it comes to helping you kind of get your name out there and just make connections with other people around you within the IT industry that can help you. That can really help you land a security job. So, focusing on the resume again this is what I was talking about earlier we're going to translate a lot of the experience that you already bring with you that is not wasted into this new resume that's more cybersecurity focused. That will include a lot of the stuff that you're working on and that you will be working on before this six-month period ends. Anything to add there, john?
John:there, john. No, just one thing I thought about, um that the having a coach and a mentor can add immediately add to your network right Like they can connect you. That's where I've helped so many people get opportunities and be able to just present themselves and be able to even just have the opportunity to have an interview.
John:Um, just because I I vouched for them and I connected them to my bigger network of people that you, on your own you're, you're trying to reach out to build your network, but you know you have this force multiplier of a network effect that you link to someone like us and then now we've linked you to the bigger networking community that we know of, right, and then that just, it's hard to put a dollar figure on what that's worth and how much that's worth, right, because I mean I you know, I just know it's not necessarily what, it's not necessarily what you know. It is who you know. We've seen it time and time again. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't be here without my network, for sure, likewise yeah.
John:So that that part it may not be a line item but it is the bigger picture of like, hey, this is what you get from having a coach and a mentor that you've invested time with and spent time with and they feel if they tell you you, hey, you're ready and I'm going to help you connect to people, then it's tough to put a dollar figure on how much that's worth, because it's a big deal.
Steve:It is. No, I completely agree. I mean they are a lot of. I wish I had the numbers, but there's been a lot of situations where individuals that I've been working with end up getting a cybersecurity job through either someone that we've connected them to or just because we tell them that, like hey, networking is king man, you got to go out there and connect with people there. And connect with people They've connected with other friends of theirs who oh, it's my friend's sister-in-law, who's had a brother, who's got a cousin, who works here. Like it's crazy how these connections happen.
Steve:And I actually had a recent experience where a lovely young lady I was working with.
Steve:She was ready to go, she put a resume out there, she created her linkedin and I, you know, encouraged her to start connecting and first to start connecting with people that she knew like friends, family, friends, whatever, right on on linkedin and her, uh, sister-in-law which is why I said that her sister-in-law was connected, um, to a guy who was working for a startup cybersecurity company who was looking for entry level position to start a SOC. So she brought that to me and I was like that's perfect, like you have like over half of the qualifications that they're looking for. So let's, let's apply right and let's work on these two things that they have on their position description, that you don't have any experience with right now, but let's work on that, let's put it on the resume as in progress and let's go and you can talk to your sister and along see if she can give you the help, you that with that little nudge nudge. And yeah, she called, she was calling into the interview and she got the job also.
Steve:Yeah, it's just connections, man, it really is.
John:Yeah, I'll piggyback on that. So I had a we'll come back to martial arts in a little bit but I saw a guy who I was connected through martial arts to on Facebook and he had just graduated from a program for cybersecurity and I hadn't seen him in years, right. But I was like, hey, you know, I just dropped a comment in there and he probably didn't remember me even. It'd been so long. But I said, hey, you know I'm in cybersecurity. If you ever need help, I'm happy to help you out. Right, I didn't hear anything back and then, like a few days later, maybe a week later, he must have been reading. He's like, wait a minute, what is he? He's been in in, I think.
John:I said I've been in cyber security for x years, right, and he was like let me message him so I get this message. And he's like, hey, man, I just saw your comment, you know, I didn't know you were even in cyber security, right? Um, and I ended up ended up connecting him because what he his focus is in his experience with Tim Tomes, who we all know. Tim, like he's a web app security master. And I was like, hey, man, you know, you should talk to Tim and he can give you the real scoop on what it's like to to do this job and web app security and and he would never be able to really probably never connect with Tim, right, but just me helping and knowing Tim and knowing him connect those two and I'm how much insight he got from his conversation with Tim. Like after what he told me, he was like, wow, this really changed my perspective, right? So this is another good example, yeah absolutely awesome.
Steve:Yes, that would be really the focus of month three. So then month four it's really, you know, continuation of the previous months, right? So we're continuing to work on that study plan, we're continuing to tackle those certificates, we're continuing to work on that hands on experience. Having that home lab available will be a huge help, be a huge help. Month four we start preparing for the interview process and we do that by doing some mock interviews.
Steve:You know, like I mentioned earlier, I tend to be work, to work a lot with individuals that are transitioning from different areas, different areas, into just an IT world right, cybersecurity but they haven't had any IT jobs before, so it's a lot of firsts. So for them, they haven't really experienced what now could be considered a traditional IT interview where you could get scenarios that they put you through, they put you under the gauntlet, right. So it really just kind of it's new for them. And I, you know, if I'm working with somebody, I want to give them all the information possible to make sure they are prepared 100%. I'm that kind of person I like to be prepared 100% before I try to do anything new, try to do anything different. So I, you know, I want them to succeed and not fail. So that's where mock interviews are very important, where we put you through a mock interview as if we were hiring you for a position with a position description, where you will have to create your resume to fit that position description, and you come in and you apply and it's an hour-long interview where you'll be sitting down interviewing with us. We'll ask you questions just ask questions. You would be asked, put you through a small scenario as you would be put in a real interview, and then at the end we give you feedback.
Steve:Right, we give you feedback about what you did, what you did well, where we need to work some more, what you can do differently, how you can describe things differently, things that you've done right.
Steve:So we've been working together for four months now. We know what you're working on, we know what kind of labs you've done, we know what you've done in your home lab, so we can help you kind of create those stories right Storytelling, which John loves so that can really shine on what you've done already, so that you're not leaving everything off the table. Right, you're basically selling yourself to a hiring manager and we want to make sure that you go and guns a blazing with everything that you have and you don't forget, you know, the little things that really do matter, that might just slip your mind. So that's kind of where we would go a month for again, continuing to then target specific jobs that you would like to go, different companies, and continuing to finalize your resume Because by this point you would have completed a couple more of those certificates, a couple more of those skills buildings. So just continuation on that Thoughts.
John:John, just one thought. You go through these interviews and you don't hear anything. Or you hear you didn't get the opportunity, didn't get the job and you don't know, you don't hear anything. Or you hear you didn't get the opportunity, didn't get the job and you don't know, you don't get feedback, why they don't tell you what, why you didn't meet what they were looking for. A lot of times you just hear that you didn't get picked.
John:How much, how much value is it to go through a mock interview with hiring managers that do this and to give you direct feedback right out the gate of like what you should do to get to do better in the interview, but also what you need to do still to land this kind of position, land this kind of job? I mean that one thing right there is huge just because the feedback. And how much people just like they get ghosted or they just don't know and they're like I don't know what I need to do differently. Did they not like did I need another sir? Did I not speak well? Did I talk too long? Did I ramble? Whatever? Right? That is not to be understated.
Steve:Absolutely, and I've worked with individuals who might be a little older and they haven't had an interview like this ever Right, and for them it's a huge help, also for others, but for them I really can see the difference because, you know, just building that confidence right.
Steve:If you if you really haven't had any interviews like this and you don't know what to expect, you're going in there. You're nervous oh my God, your hands are sweating, you're nervous. And if you can just go through this a couple of times to kind of build that confidence, to kind of give you an idea of what you could be expecting, you're not going in there blind, right, you have some sort of idea, so then you can adjust and, like you said, if you've heard feedback multiple times and you've adjusted, changed things, then you're getting better and better. That also builds your confidence and gets you ready to go in there and kill it. So it's definitely a very valuable thing that some people might not think about.
Steve:Some people may just assume an interview is an interview. But if you've not had an IT interview before, it is not like any other interview that you've had, especially for cybersecurity. Putting you in scenarios testing your skill, really testing to see if you know what you say, you know on your resume. It could be scary man, it could be nerve wracking and we've seen people just fold under the pressure, Freeze, freeze, fold crash.
Steve:Crash I think that's a better word. We've seen people crash under pressure.
Steve:And it's not like we're doing it on purpose. When we're interviewing people for our organization, it's just we want to get the best candidate and it's unfortunate that they just didn't prepare accordingly. But they have these pages of experience and it's like when you're actually put under pressure in terms of what you're going to be doing day in and day out, you crumble. So that's where you know being able to do this is a huge help. So definitely something to consider. Anything else, john, before we move to month five, all right. So then month five is again, I just continuation of this. Right now, within within all this right life, life can happen, things can change, so we will adjust. Right, we're constantly communicating on a weekly, bi-weekly basis. You know. We're emailing each other, we're checking in, we're working through things, we're answering questions. So at any point in time, something may shift and that's okay. We'll work on it, we'll jump on it, we'll rearrange, we'll refocus and we'll continue to move forward. So then month five would be continuing to look at jobs, continuing to review resumes, continuing to go after certifications and stuff. By this point in time, we already have narrowed down what type of job you're going to go after, what are some of the top companies that you might be interested in and a good, solid resume. I mean, that's really it, and we're applying, we're constantly applying and we're going after things. So that's really what would happen around month five and then month six normally is when we're finalizing everything, if we haven't done it already by month five, in terms of completed certificates, completed training, completed labs completed, everything on the roadmap I mean everything in terms of technical knowledge and skill has been completed, and the only thing we're focusing on now is applying and going to interviews, applying for positions and going to interviews. Also, you know some things that, again, if this is your first IT job, you might just say, hey, I'm just trying to get my foot in the door, I don't care.
Steve:But something that others, or just people in general, should not forget about is salary negotiation. You know, I see it all the time. You know people, they're like man, I don't care, I'm just trying to get my foot in the door, I'll take whatever they offer me. I've been waiting for a job for months, like I'm desperate, like no, no, no, hold up. I mean, you shouldn't go into this like that, right, you should always try to get the most you can without you know, without scaring anybody away. I mean, you've already done the hard work about um interviewing, preparing, getting through the process and you were picked. So they wanted you. Out of everybody else that they interviewed, you were the best choice. So it is okay to counter with a reasonable suggestion and, what's the worst thing, they can say no.
Steve:But I mean you won't know unless you ask Right, and that's one thing that I've helped a couple people with, and it's like it's crazy. You know companies will always try to low ball you. They will always try to get you for the lowest amount they can pay, but you also have to know your worth and have to know that you know, know what you're bringing to the table and all that hard work that you put to get there. So, again, it's good and a good idea to counter, when it comes to salary negotiation, if you can, with a reasonable request. Don't go over here asking for $300,000 for an entry-level position, because they're just going to laugh you out of the room. But depending on where you live, depending on what companies you're working for, there's some room for negotiation there, and that's something else that we can help you with and guide you along the way as well.
John:Yeah, and then just that how do you hit the ground running and kill it those first 30, 60, 90 days like, hey, if you we were to hire you and you started with us, how would you impress us and and what we think, help you out with this position to stand out not just to fit in, but to stand out and how much that's going to help you open up other opportunities, open up your future, maybe open up more pay in the future? Things like that. That's how you want to be seen is like dang Steve is getting. Look, he just started. You guys better take note. Yes, he's killing it, he's getting after it, and you guys are kind of just doing the same old, same old every day. Like you know, not that you're trying to outshine people, but you want to be seen as that person. It's like look this person, I'm so excited, I'm so happy I hired them.
Steve:Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And just to go into what you said earlier when we were talking about the difference between mentoring and coaching, you know I still have people that I helped reach out to me and say, hey, steve, my company's wanting to dabble in this. What are your thoughts, what do you think, or what is your organization doing or how did you handle this right? And I still read, I still reply to those messages and we still have those connections where I'm still providing some mentorship, some guidance, just sharing my opinion about how I handle things or how that worked for me. And then that's just building my network and it's building their network too, cause now I have so-and-so an ex company that I know that you know they're working on X project and even I have asked people like that.
Steve:We've worked with someone who ended up going to a company that they provide security services, and I reached out to them and I said, hey, I don't know if you work in this, but you know I have a question on this. I mean, is that something that you do or your company does, or how do you guys handle that? And you know they were able to help me, point me in the right direction, connect me to the right person. And now you know that's just another connection that I've made. So, yeah, it really helps tremendously. You know, just having those connections and building those relationships that will last forever. I mean, I encourage everybody that I I work with like hey man, you got my email now like we.
Steve:We have a relationship, we have a friendship. I continue to reach out. I'll keep tabs on you and see where you go and one day maybe you can give me a job. You know, it's just like absolutely it's great.
John:Well, we've got some of our former mentees on on our podcast right, yeah, and it's cool to be able to still be connected to them and see how they're growing.
John:And hey, I'll ask them hey, you're, you're better at this than I am now, but you know, help me out here because you know I've lost or I need some experience from your perspective. So, yeah, it's, you're part of the bigger, bigger, bigger network. That's not just done whenever you're, you know, you're kind of done with their time with us, absolutely. So we were talking about some success stories, but I'll share a story of just something I had listened to, which was a great TED Talk that I don't know how it came up. I think it came up on LinkedIn or something and I was like, oh, this is perfect and we'll share this in our links in the show notes.
John:But there's a surgeon who the title of his TED talk is want to get great at something, get a coach right. And he's like awesome at his job, right, he's. Yeah, I don't know if you get awards as a surgeon, but he's like really good at his job. And he, but he kind of felt like he was running into some you know some, some ceiling there on his skills. He wasn't getting better, he wasn't improving and he decided to bring in um a coach, his former mentor um, back when he was in school, to just observe him doing surgery, like to to he's going to do surgery and and his coach was going to be there in the room and just watch how he operates literally operates Right and uh, and then provide feedback. And so he goes through the surgery and he's like dude, I killed it, like my, my mentor coach, he's not going to have anything to say, you know, because this went perfect, like maybe because I'm under, I knew he was there, so I did better than I even thought I was going to do. And so he, you know, asked his coach like well, what did you think? How did it go? And his coach is like thumbing through his notes, right, and he's like well, first off, you know, your elbow was in this position when you performed this maneuver and really it's better to have it closer to your body so that you can have more mobility and more strength. Um, and your light, you know, was in this position. It's actually better if you have your light shining here so you can see this thing better. Right, like that observation that he's in his mind and he's doing his thing and he thinks he's killing it. But having that outside perspective, from a professional, a seasoned person, an expert, that's like giving him direct feedback that said, look, you are doing great, but here's some things that you can do to get better. Right, here's some things to improve. And that really changed his whole game, changed his mindset, changed what he was doing and and he did that more times, not just the one time, and that's what really he felt like elevated his um, his skills, elevated what he was doing in his professional career and how he just leveled up. And I thought that was a great example of like, yeah, we all kind of get caught up in you know what we're doing, and it's hard to get that observable feedback of like how are we doing? Are we doing okay? Should we be doing this? Should we do something different? Is this, am I actually good at this skill versus this. And I think that was a good example.
John:Another one is just martial arts in general. So you know, I've done martial arts for a long time and specifically Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and um, and you have the general classes. So you have the, you know, typical open class. Everybody shows up for class um and you get some feedback in those classes. Right, there's different ways. You get feedback. Um, you might even roll with the coach, right the black belt, and you get some feedback based on how you get your butt kicked. But then they all always offer up one-on-one coaching or one-on-one private coaching to anybody that's interested, um, and you know you pay them for that time and it's an hour of time.
John:But then you get direct feedback, right, you have the time to ask all the questions that you want to ask, and do you roll with them, you practice some techniques with them and you tell them, like, well, what do you want to work on?
John:Well, I want to get better at this. I want to get better at escapes. I want to get better at attacks. I want to get better at escapes. I want to get better at attacks. I want to get better at submitting people, whatever, and you work on that thing with this expert. That's going to give you feedback, right, then. And so your your time in classes. The time you progress in your skill set is maybe a big curve, right, a big, not curve, but you know it's a. It's a longer curve or longer line, not curve, but you know it's a. It's a longer curve or longer line. But when you do that short session with a one-on-one session. It's exponential because you get so much feedback in a short period of time versus you might get bits of that feedback over weeks or months, right? So that's just a couple of examples I thought of that are related to this concept.
Steve:Yeah, absolutely yeah. No, I mean, I can't tell you the times where I've had someone reach out to me and they've already done all the hard work, they've already gone through a lot of things and they're just applying, applying, applying and getting nothing. Crickets, crickets, crickets, crickets. And I was like well, can I see your resume, can I see an example of a position description that you applied for and the resume you submitted for that? And I find that a lot of people don't tailor their resumes right. Or I find that a lot of people haven't really, I don't want to say mastered, but gotten strong in terms of building a good resume, gotten strong in terms of building a good resume. So you know, I've been able to just kind of help them reviewing the resume, give them some feedback, um, and then just check in back, back in with them. Or sometimes they'll just reach out to me and say thanks because they're getting interviews now and it's just little things that you know.
Steve:Someone may just overlook or someone may not, may not know. You know, like, oh yeah, putting my, you know, depending on what kind of background and experience you have, you know, putting certificates first or putting skills first or putting your professional experience first, just different things. You know what to highlight, what not to highlight, how to phrase things. You know just different things that you can do with your resume. That you know as they submitted, probably through an AI system or through the HR system or whatever. You're just not creating it in a resume for someone can be a huge game changer by someone who actually knows how to tailor resumes a little bit better could be a big change.
John:Yeah, I've seen you do that and you're very good at it. I try. No, you're good at it. I think people just don't know what to expect. They're reading what's online about how to tailor the resume. But we know because, when we see so many resumes, what stands out as a good resume? You're like, oh man, this one's well done, it's concise, it highlights their skill set, their skill, their strengths.
Steve:Right, you can tell when you get a resume, you're like this is a good resume, absolutely, I mean, and one of the things, and then we can move on.
Steve:I'll say this but one of the things I guess some people may not think about is, you know, when you're applying to a position, there could be a hundred, 200, 300 applicants, right, and they the person, the hiring manager may have minimum requirements, and I want this person to at least have a Security Plus certification, right, so they're going to have to skim through the entire resume to get to that point, right. It's just little things like that, where, by placing it first and saying, oh, he meets my minimum requirement, whatever, blah, blah, whatever, and in most job descriptions they will have minimum requirements needed, right Again, running it through some AI system where it's like, hey, find these minimum requirements, and if they don't have this on their resume, just come. Just, it's a no, and then just give me all the ones that do so. You know, tailoring resumes is important, it matters, so just yeah, yeah, anyways, all right, so just yeah, Anyways all right.
Steve:So some action steps for those listeners who are trying to get started and trying to get going. I mean, definitely setting a clear goal of where you would like to go is step number one. Whether you want to be a SOC analyst, whether you want to be in GRC, be a pen test, just have an idea of kind of where that end goal is and set that up for yourself. Try and create a study plan right. If you're doing this on your own, it could get tough. You know. Reach out to us if you'd like some help. But if you've been listening to our podcast episodes, we've kind of given you something to start with. So it's something for you to explore and consider and try.
Steve:If you get to the point where you need some help with your resume, please reach out to us. We'll be happy to review it, give you some feedback. It helps having it reviewed by people who are again actively hiring individuals. It definitely helps. And if you have any other questions, feel free to book a free consultation with us. We'd be happy to chat with you, get to know you kind of, get you started right within that free consultation and, you know, kind of help you along the way. So, yeah, yeah, john, I think that's a wrap. My friend, what do you think?
John:Yeah, I would say our pitch is to call us right, use us and reach out to us. But even if you don't, we're we're making a case that how a coach or mentor can help you get to where you want to go and meet your goals. These are all the reasons that we've discussed, like how they can help you and what they can help you with. Now, not all, not all coaches are equal, not all mentors are the same, but based off what we are saying, these fundamental things of how a coach can help you get better, that's correct. Yes, sir.
John:So if you're serious about this, this is our pitch. We're trying to say, look, this is what we can help you do and how we can help you get better. Right, this is we're serious about this, we've done it, we've got experience doing it. We know we can help you know if you're ready to get after and ready to level up and get to that next stage for your career. We built these three different plans. I'll let Steve go through the different plans and what they are, but we're going to do this and you'll be able to work through this with us and you will get that time and all this effort and energy from our support, our coaching, our mentorship to help you reach your goals. So, steve, what do they get?
Steve:Yeah, yeah, Well, before I go, just wanted to say we definitely appreciate all our listeners. We appreciate everybody that we've had a chance to talk to and help, and this is just another way for us to help even more. So we've created three different plans and basically each plan builds off the previous one. Now, we did a lot of research on this. We compared what other mentors, other career coaches out there were offering for the price. What you got out of it. We really want to help, but we are limited. We are limited with how much time we have to actually help individuals. So this is a way for us to see who's serious about this. So we definitely want to make this available to as many people as possible. So, for the first 10 individuals who reach out to us and there'll be a link in the description for this and sign up, you'll get the plus plan, which really has everything that we talked about in this episode, For the price of the starter plan $69 a month for a six month period.
Steve:The six month period is how long we we've seen time and time again, after we've been doing this for a while. Within six months we are we've been successfully able to help someone start from zero and get them to the point where they are applying and getting jobs at an entry level position in cybersecurity. And that's kind of how this plant, these plans, were created just based off our experience and what we've seen be successful and what we've seen work in the structure and planning. So, again, for the first 10 people that sign up, you'll basically get everything here in the PLUS plan for the $69 a month.
Steve:You'll get a career assessment when we first talk about building the foundation. You'll get mentoring sessions. We'll talk about your progress, how things are going. Where else you know, where else can we improve. We'll get you a personalized study plan that will get you from point A to point B. We'll work on your resume, work on your LinkedIn. We'll continue an improvement and you'll have access to us via email, via discord, and we will be there to help you along the way. So if you're interested, again, there's be a link in the description. John thoughts.
John:We think this is worthwhile. We think that we can really help you in your career and this investment that could pay off dividends for ever. Right, for many years down the road. Right, and we've seen it. We've seen it for people that we've helped that have told us I wouldn't be here without you guys today. Right, and we love seen it. We've seen it for people that we've helped that have told us I wouldn't be here without you guys today, and we love hearing that Absolutely.
Steve:We're very thankful to just the support that we've had with this podcast and all the feedback we've gotten of everyone that we've been able to help or even just motivate, and this is just a way for us to give back, to give more, but feel free to reach out to us if you have any specific questions on this. Alright, well, that is it for today. Thank you all and until next time, yep, thank you guys. We'll see you. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of the Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast.
John:Remember to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform so you get all the episodes. Join us next time as we continue to unlock the secrets of cybersecurity mentorship.
Steve:Do you have questions or topics you'd like us to cover, or do you want to share your journey? Join us on Discord at Cybersecurity Mentors Podcast and follow us on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time. I'm John Hoyt and I'm Steve Higuretta. Thank you for listening.